British PIAT

[m3a1]

Stumbled onto a unicorn earlier in the week and brought home a PIAT and gentlemen, if a PIAT is a unicorn, the PIAT round is its huevos.

Sooooo....if you have an inert PIAT round or even an excellent reproduction and if you are willing to part with it, I am looking for one. None of the manufacturers on the other side of the pond are willing to send one over.

I am also seeking the spare parts roll, canvas gaiter (sleeve) and canvas for the buttstock....and again, reproductions of suitable quality are also OK.

Cheers,
TJ

[rickf]

What HAVEN'T you bought recently?!!! I will be talking to an old friend this weekend, he has "connections" and I will ask him. I would not get my hopes up. His connections are for more recent and modern stuff.

[m3a1]

As my father always said, "Live in hope and die in prosperity."

Good quality reproductions of any of those items are always welcome. The PIAT is a rare thing to find on this side of the pond and like most rarities, there just isn't a whole lot of stuff out there to be had.

Cheers,
TJ

[rickf]

I saw him today and completely forgot. He was changing sights on five guns and we were resighting them so quite busy and I just forgot about it. I may or may not be buying an AK from him so I will be talking to him again soon.

[m3a1]

Ok, any help is certainly appreciated.

[leadfarmer]

Ever do anything with your PIAT? I recently picked one up in complete working condition. After studying how original rounds functioned, and seeing some videos on youtube of people getting them working, I have started developing plans and buying material to reproduce inert projectiles that will fire and re-cock the PIAT like original projectiles would have. It will involve welding, machining, 3D printing, and even masonry! Hopefully I can get to that project this year.

[m3a1]

Actually, I found a guy in Great Britain who had been making 3D printed models of them, until his large 3D printer suffered a fatal fault. He made me a deal I couldn't refuse and I bought what he had left....4, or maybe five of em as I recall. They are absolutely beautiful, full scale models which is all I really wanted to display my PIAT. Never really felt the need to actually shoot one. They'd be a little tricky in terms of achieving a correct CG for the rounds. Doable, of course. But tricky

[leadfarmer]

I will use steel to make the tube with the projecting charge inside it.

The head and tail fins will be 3D printed and mechanically attached to the tube.

The head will be filled with concrete to get the weight to match an original.

I think my projecting charge will be a shotgun hull with the rim machined off the base so it is smooth sided, then loaded as a short blank with pistol powder. Similar to the charges I use to shoot mortars.

[rickf]

Remember Adam from Ballistic high speed? His RPG blew up while firing. I'll shoot old guns but explosive products................... no.

[leadfarmer]

The RPG accident was terrible. A lot of people learned things from that.

Before that, in 2015 Steve Preston and his assistant were killed inside his M18 Hellcat tank when the breech ring of the gun exploded while firing a load that was loaded excessively hot. Anyone getting into big guns will eventually be told that cautionary tale by an older member of the community.

https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-nort ... ank_e.html

If you spend enough time shooting small arms you will get bit or you will see it happen to someone else. I've seen plenty of incidents at the range. I've had a piece of 9mm jacket in my left arm for a few years now, and that happened at a women's intro to pistol class where I was teaching.

Large bore guns (destructive devices) can be more dangerous if you don't adhere to best practices, safety protocols, etc.

I have been restoring and shooting destructive devices for a couple of years now and there is a big learning curve. They are more like a jeep restoration. There is a lot of research and networking involved and it can take years before you're ready to take it out and enjoy it.

Here is my 1942 3" M5 anti-tank gun firing a blank or salute. It is ready to send a projectile down range, which I'm planning on doing this weekend. I will be pulling the firing lanyard with a long rope from behind solid cover. I'm more nervous about assembling my ammo on a shop press than I am about firing it.



I really like mortars. They are lawn darts for men. Here is my Yugoslavian 81mm M69B-D mortar.



At the time of this photo I was using a barrel that was demilled and I repaired it by welding in a patch. The barrel is turned so the patch is facing down range in case it were to blow out. Before welding in the patch, I did a PMI on the barrel material and reviewed it with weld engineers, who gave me a process to follow that involved pre-heat, Inconel filler, and slow cooling, and post weld NDT. I only loaded light charges to send the mortars about 100 yards max. So this is an example of how you could use a repaired barrel safely. It worked for many rounds before someone made a run of new barrels. I now have a new made barrel and I have been able to load my charges hotter, but nowhere near full power, since I have to go find the darn things.

I also have a WWII Russian 50mm mortar and a WWII US 60mm M2 mortar.

My next projects are tackling the PIAT and getting a 40mm M79 grenade launcher, which I will be filing the NFA paperwork on soon.

The PIAT is interesting, since the propellent charge is ignited in the tube of the projectile, which is outside of any barrel, and about 20" in front of your face. So there will be remote firing until the design is sorted out and then probably always used with a face shield and ballistic helmet.

[rickf]

I think that tank explosion is why these guy always pull the trigger from outside the tank now.

https://www.drivetanks.com/tanks-tracks/

[m3a1]

If I understood you correctly....

The shock of launching a PIAT round with a solid center and a printed tail and nose section (especially one containing a solid filler) would probably result in the center section separating from the lighter weight parts. I admit I'm spitballing here but 3D print is likely going to be far too brittle if applied in that manner. That's as far as I'm going to go on this. Instead, I'm going to play the role of Jiminy Cricket.

What follows is as much for the readership as it is for the original poster (who will undoubtedly assure us that all will be well.)

My brother-in-law spectacularly wrecked a rail dragster we had built and killed himself doing it. We were supposed to be having fun.

Once, I actually shot someone with a Sherman tank (with the whole thing pointed in a safe direction AND while on the move) and that delivered a hammer blow to the victim's scapula....knocking him right into the dirt. Later, it was found someone in the USMC (who are people who should know better) had supplied the museum with 75MM blank rounds loaded with what was about a 1lb wad of beeswax as stopper, rather than my being supplied with the 75MM black powder rounds we usually loaded at the museum. Well, I was naive enough take the blanks given to me and ask no questions. Thankfully, I then practiced the fundamentals of gun safety (never point a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy). A big chunk of wax blowing out of a 75MM makes a mean and unpredictable projectile that behaves more like a Frisbee than a bullet. Had I pointed it toward the local TV people who were filming the tank going through its paces, things likely would have turned out far differently. That was supposed to be fun too.

We had one guy lose a finger to a tank hatch coming down on it and neatly shearing the finger off.

My brother accidentally launched my 63 split window Corvette into my father's garage (pulling an impressive wheel stand while doing it). My father had built the garage using an Army Corps of Engineer manual. Garage won. Corvette lost...bigly.

I was a National reenactment (Ft. McCoy if memory serves) when a guy stood up from the commander seat in a half track and in doing so, lifted the muzzle of a Browning 1919, centrally located behind him, with one shoulder. The misfortune here was, there is always some guy who thinks he's John Wayne and cannot keep his d*** beaters off the working bits of a MG even when people are just standing around waiting to jump off. So, the muzzle went up. Conversely, the pistol group on the opposite end went down and pressed the trigger against the John-Wayne-wannabe's trigger finger and the MG went off right by standing-up guy's ear (with predictable, life changing results). National reenactments are supposed to be fun.

And as a youth, I discovered that a two liter bottle of Fanta, packed very firmly with reloading powder, can make a wooden wheelbarrow utterly disintegrate, launches it's steel wheel about 50' up into a tree (where it remained for many years); it levels two cords of wood and blows every window out of Dad's stout garage because, in the final analysis, glass is only glass. Oh, and when your friends see something disastrous like that coming, they won't stop to warn you. Nope. They'll run and save themselves, leaving you to face destiny all on your lonesome. We thought we were having fun. Turned out we weren't.

What do all these things have in common? Two things (maybe more)

The Law of Unintended Consequences.

and

The Law of Averages.

and

Fun is fun, until it AIN'T. So please, tread very VERY lightly if you feel you must tread at all and if the result isn't worth the risk....

Cheers,
TJ

[leadfarmer]

We are already using mortar rounds with great success made in the manner I described. May have been a poor description though. Here are the metal/3D printed rounds with concrete filler:







You would be surprised what a nice thick PLA+ 3D print can endure. We fire these over and over with nose cones containing chalk being replaced each time and tail fins needing replaced every so often, but the main body never separates from the tube.

Adapting the design to the PIAT isn't too challenging. Coming up with the launching charge may take some trial and error. I have the steel tubing and the 3D print. I just need to find some time to put it together and start tinkering.

All of your not fun experiences are pretty typical of any fun activity that has inherent risk that needs to be managed. I have my own list of similar experiences.

I won't assure you it will be fine. I will plan for it to blow up and try and hurt me. Which is why I will be wearing protective gear and testing in an appropriate location.

Hazard Yet Forward

[rickf]

12 gauge launchers?

[leadfarmer]

81mm uses 12ga blanks.
60mm uses 20ga blanks.
50mm uses 28ga blanks.

The PIAT will use a modified 12ga blank.