solid state ignition - engine doesn't start

[jpcorsica]

Thank you Georges

What I didn't find in the .34 manual was what Rick was saying :

In the -34 manual there is a procedure for installing a new gear on a distributor including the process for making a tool for setting up the distributor and gear for drilling the shaft. That is what I am going to do with all of mine when I retire, redrill them and put the gears on right.

... because I don't want to put down the engine and rebuilt everything. I'm looking for an altenative solution.

Regards

[rickf]

I have a solution that was done on one of my engines that had the same issue. Be aware that this will make that distributor dedicated to that engine! Set the engine at the timing mark for number one cylinder on the compression stroke. Knock the roll pin out of the distributor gear and carefully set the distributor back in place, take note of where it came out so it will go back in easily. You do not want to force anything because the gear is not being held by anything right now. If the gear was loose on the shaft when you took out the pin then put tape at the top of the gear on the shaft to keep the gear from riding up the shaft. Once the distributor is in then turn the rotor to the number one position on the cap. Now your gear is in position for that motor and that motor only. drill a new hole through the gear and shaft 90 degrees from the existing hole. The reason for the new hole is because you will never get the old holes to line up, trust me on this. I should have mentioned in the beginning to scribe a line at the top and bottom of the gear for realignment reference.

IF you have time on your hands and want to be sure the gear is right you could take it off to begin with and drill out one of the original pin holes and tap it for a small set screw and that way you could snug it a bit to be sure things stay where they belong and after you have it where you think it belongs you could tighten the set screw a bit and reinstall a couple times to be sure. I guess if you tapped both holes you might be able to run it that way but I would only do it for a test and lock-tite the screws.

[jpcorsica]

Rick you are the best !!
it's a very good solution I'm going to implement that, but only this weekend, I will keep you informed of the success of this operation.
The only point I don't see is :

NOW, when you lift out the distributor be sure the rotor rotates a little as it comes up off the gear, this way you are sure it stayed in position

If you can precise what does it means.

best regards

[HILLBILLY-06]

What rick is saying about the rotation, gives you a point of reference, so you know where to line it up when you put it back in, I always use a paint marker or sharpie or something to mark my rotor position in and out when I ever done that on other vehicles, so I have my starting points all figured out when I put it back in. Otherwise, you may be in for a bit of guess work when you get started on that project. It's just one of the little things that make a big difference later on, in case you were in a hurry, or got distracted while working on it.

[rickf]

JP, Disregard that! I am thinking about two different kinds of motors. The oil pump will rotate a little as you insert it but the distributor will go straight in. I will delete that part from the original dialog to eliminate confusion.

[Fil Bonica]

This is the other side!
If you have the time and interest take out the engine and fix the problem once and for all.
These other fixes create other problems later. Retiming by moving wires is okay because nothing permanent
Red rolling the distributor shaft is interesting but as Rick says make it a special item.
Once forgotten it will give you fits to correct.
If it were mine I would correct it once and for all.

FilBonica

[rickf]

One thing to think about, When you do pull the engine in the future you can then put the pump right and rotate the gear back where it belongs and repin it there using the original holes. I would use a new pin and locktite.

[jpcorsica]

Hy everybody

I try to implement teh "rick" solution to fix my pb.
I Knock the roll pin out of the distributor gear but I can't seperate the coupling from the shaft.
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The "' manual say to "tap lightly with rubber mallet". Instead I tap loudly with regular hammer, but it doesnt move at all.

Any idea ?

[rickf]

Did the roll pin come out in one piece? I will assume it did or I am pretty sure you would have mentioned that. This is not a problem. What you need to do is to heat the gear. The best way of doing this is to heat the gear very hot very fast so as to expand the gear before the shaft has a chance to catch up. In order to do this you need a hot torch with a concentrated flame. In order of preference, Oxy-acetalyne, Plumbers acetylene or MAPP torch with small tip, handheld MAPP gas bottle torch from Home Depot or similar and last in line a plain old propane plumbers torch. These are in order of the hottest to least hottest flame. Once you get below the second down in line the fast heat method is probably not going to work. At that point you heat it up hot but not red hot and tap the gear LIGHTLY. You can tap it up as well as down, you just want to break it loose at first. Just don't tap it up against the collar or you will have a hard time getting behind it to tap it back down. During this procedure it is a good idea and a necessity for the cooler torches to have a wet rag wrapped around the shaft not far above where you are working. You do not want to transfer excessive heat into the bushings. Do not hammer too hard on it or you can damage the bushings and advance mechanisms in the distributor.

If heating it does not work the first time take a break and let it cool on its own, do not put it in water. Once cool try tapping again, the gear will want to cool faster than the shaft and will tend to stretch a little, this is sometimes all that is needed. Once cool put some penetrating oil of choice on it and try that. If all else fails, repeat with the heat. I have never had one last past two heat cool cycles before it slid off but you have to be patient and not beat on it because that can expand the shaft and then it is not coming off at that point. And NEVER hit the end of the shaft, That will also expand the shaft.

[jpcorsica]

Thanks, I'm going to try that
regards

[rickf]

If you are doing he hot and fast method you want to spend as little time as possible heating the gear. With an oxy-acetylene torch I can heat it in 10 to 15 seconds and then hand the torch to someone and immediately go to work on the gear. The idea is to get it while the gear is expanded and before the shaft has a chance to expand. The cold wet rag will help but not for long. If it is moving and then stops and does not want to move any more then stop trying, the shaft has heated up and expanded. I should have mentioned in the very beginning to take some mechanics cloth and clean of as much of the end of the shaft as you can first. I tend to forget the minor details because it is habit for me to do it when I am working and I don't even think about it. The whole idea of what we are doing here is to get the gear to a point where it will turn on the shaft. That means it does not have to come off the shaft, just move enough to clean under it. So if you move it half the width of the gear down and clean that part then you can move it up over the clean part and do the same behind where it just was. All it is going to take is a couple swipes with fine emory cloth. You do not want to take metal off of the shaft.

[Fil Bonica]

May sound like a "doubting Thomas" but it seems like a lot of work and too many places for SNAFUS to occur.
Fix it once the right way and be done with it.
Just the words of the old philosopher.

Fil Bonica

[rickf]

Turn gear, drill hole. That is not all that hard. Plus it is reversible. Take pin out, move gear back to original position and put pin back in original holes. No harm done.

[Fil Bonica]

The problems I see are
1 damaging the gear or shaft heating things.
2 incorrectly re orienting the shaft position
3 forgetting to tell a future owner of the vehicle of the non standard distributor .
Then back to the original problem


Just another perspective.
It's your call.

Fil Bonica.

[BentPirate]

Ok, so I’m late to the party.

Just got in with the m151 a2. Broke ignition. Here’s the answer

Engine started sputtering a bit every few hours. Started getting more pronounced and often. Thought it was fuel issue. After trailering home and wrenching apart the distributor, discovered I had Swiss solid state. After testing resistance on coil, discovered the Hall effect sensor lead WIRE inside the distributor housing had parted WITHIN its plastic insulation. How would one have known?

So instead of buying a bunch of stuff, just ran another wire through the housing! Cost, nothing but 3 hours of time, except for ending the trip a day early. I read many threads online for hours. No one mentioned this issue. Had to get it out to the world. First post here ever.

BT. Uncut m151 a2 w ROPS and matching M416 trailer