Civvy winch

[m3a1]

Gent's, I've been contemplating buying a 12K civilian winch for a long time now.

Call me crazy but I think the time to shop is BEFORE I need one.

If you have direct experience with any particular brand and/or model, or have an opinion about what options are particularly nice to have, I'd like to hear about it.

I'm looking at a lot of stuff on-line and wading through a lot of feedback from purchasers (a great deal of it 'bad').

Yes, the Gama Goat has a winch but I'm looking for one particularly for use with my trailer and the M561 isn't always going to be there.

Cheers,
TJ

[Hambone]

My brother-in-law has a 9000# Badland winch from Harbor Freight on his trailer, I laughed when he bought a China winch, I've used it a few times with no problems. He paid less than $300 with coupon, it's still working after a couple years, it has good reviews, I always liked the spur gear Warn 8000.

[rickf]

Those Harbor Freight winches are gaining a lot of traction as far as trailer winches. For the price you get a 8,000 lb. or higher and you will be able to use it single line for almost anything that rolls and if you get one with no wheels use a snatch block and drag it on.
Hambone, I have the Warn 8274 on my CJ and I used that winch since 1974 on every vehicle I have owned from then on. The motor finally gave up but it certainly did not owe me a cent, I stalled that thing more times than I can remember plus hard pulls for the the full 150 foot cable minus a half drum on many occasions. 40 years of that before it gave out! Mine was one of the first 8274's with the automatic brake.

[Hambone]

The old school Warns are $2500 now, I have one on my 76 Scout, the winch still works but the Scout needs attention.

[m3a1]

Yeah, I think the Warn is out of reach, price-wise.

At the moment, Ironton (Northern tools) and Traveller (TSC) are really neck and neck to my thinking..

I just can't bring myself to buy a 12K winch at Harbor Freight. I just can't.

Having to answer the "What were you expecting?" questions just terrifies me.

[D Pizzoferrato]

The Northern Tool winch looks exactly like the Harbor Freight winch. Likely the same Chicom factory with a custom brand for the customer. Here is one of the many possible suppliers https://cqshanyan.en.alibaba.com/produc ... 3bcaCzshaD

Given a little effort, I could probably find the exact match for the TSC winch China supplier as well.

[rickf]

Why buy a 12,000 lb. winch for a trailer? 9,000 lb. is more than enough even considering the low duty cycle. If it isn't working hard then the duty cycle doesn't play into it. That is why I suggest the higher rating. But you do not need to go THAT high! It will just be slower. I think most of them use the same motor with different gearing.

[mutt and jeff]

I've got two HF Badland winches on my two trailers. A 2500lb on my 16ft trailer as I usually only tow a jeep and/or a trailer on that one and a 10k lb winch on the 26ft trailer for larger vehicles. I don't know enough about ratings, but presume that winching up rolling vehicles is not the same as "dead" weight, so I'm comfortable with those winches for my needs.

New technology wants to go wireless, but be careful with the little fob remotes as if you loose one or the little battery goes dead, you are stuck. We looked into wiring in a manual switch as a back up but have not done it yet. The cable controls give you some room to get away from the winch, but the wireless let you actually ride up in the towed vehicle and steer, so give that some thought.

And the winch battery is a weak spot. If it goes down or dies during winching, you are out of action. We are going to get around to installing a trailer plug connection that will allow us to use the tow vehicle battery with the engine running to power the winch. I have seen others use a solar battery charger to keep the winch battery at full charge. With two trailers and two winches, we were always pulling batteries out of one and putting it in the other, or spending money on batterys that sit more than they get used.

I saw a friend mount some sort of roller system to the rear of his trailer so he could thread his cable around it and come back up to the trailer vehicle to assist with unloading. Especially helpful with stuck rotors or drums or just four flat tires. It's onn our bucket list to install some sort of round pipe to allow us to do this.

The other thing we did was to remove some of the cable off the spool. I know this sounds counter productive, but we kept snagging the cable when we wound it up as it needed to lie perfectly smooth in the spindle or it would bind against the spindle housing and really cause problems. So we cut some off the cable and solved that issue. We still have more than enough to come off the rear of the trailer and get to our dead vehicle and if we need a strap to make up any shortage, that is easier to do than deal with the wound up and bound cable.

Just some life experiences to contemplate while researching winchs.

We get the warranty extensions from HF and if you have an issue, just take it back and get a new winch. We don't do this, but I have a friend that buys the two year extensions on everything from HF and take the item back after 23 months and gets a new one, regardless of any issues.

[m3a1]

TSC winch comes with almost 85 feet of cable and that spool is FULL when it's all on there... which looks just dandy straight out of the box but I'm thinking unless it all goes back on the spool just-so (and in the real world, during use when does it actually do that?) having that much cable may present problems. I have a lot of chains and cable to work with so, the length really doesn't enter into it. Not for me anyway.

Ironton has about 20 feet LESS of cable. Their spool appears to comes not-so-jam-packed. If that is true, I think that's a bonus.

TSC comes with a cable 1/16" thicker than that of Ironton and thicker cable can be harder to wrangle.

TSC and HF models both have 3HP motors Ironton (Northern Tools) has a 5.5HP motor. All have similar duty cycles. All are equipped with 3-stage planetary gears (no surprise there).

I must say I'm leaning toward the Ironton at the moment if only because of their claim of having a more powerful motor and the fact that they are far more forthcoming with the finer details of their winch.

Don't really want a wireless key-fob remote (things get lost) and you won't find me sitting in any vehicle being winched on. I'm funny like that. I go a little, block things up, re-adjust and go again. Easier on the winch. Safer for me and anyone working with me.

Why 12K? In my experience, going bigger means less labor for the machine and to my way of thinking, that translates to a longer service life.

I will be going down to San Antonio today to try to have a look at an actual Ironton unit and will report back with my findings.

Cheers,
TJ

[rickf]

The battery issue is the main sticking point and the only real way around it is Anderson connectors on a set of 00 gauge cables that go to the truck battery. That is a LOT of expensive cable but if you want to get full voltage to the winch battery then you will need it. As far as keeping the battery charged you can do that through the standard trailer battery charging system incorporated in just about all vehicles since the late 70's. The main problem is when you start winching there is a chance that you will draw a couple hundred amps through that circuit! You need to look over the wiring closely to be sure it will only charge at a nominal rate and not try to make up for a heavy draw. If you plug in the main battery through the heavy cables then the charging system will not see the draw. The advantage to the Anderson connector is that you can also set up a set of jumper cables to work off of the same connector and if the vehicle on the trailer has a dead battery or you need to jump a car and you can only get close from the rear you have that option. Another Anderson plug mounted to the front and you have the same jumper cable available up front.

https://www.grainger.com/product/ANDERS ... RAD-040120

[m3a1]

Went to Northern Tools today. The 12K was on sale. Came to find out the representative picture wasn't quite what I would be getting. No fairlead, no mount of any sort, just the basic winch and wire remote and a few ancillary bits.

Did a little math and ordered Northern's receiver hitch mount for it (not a single one on the shelves, naturally) and got out of there at just a little more than what the regular retail price would have been for the winch. I still think I'm ahead, considering the extra horsepower and the shorter, more flexible cable. An extra 1/16" adds up really quickly when the cable is coiled up on a spool and ultimately, the larger the cable, the more the winch has to work to wrap it up.

I don't have a cable-stop bumper (yet) or a fairlead. Figured I might go large on the fairlead and get something other than one of the cheap Chinese ones.

These models we've been discussing are kind of the edge of the low-end universe. Beyond that you're looking at jumping up to $700+ and up. Will be a while before I actually put it to use so I will have no actual experience to report on for a while.

Cheers,
TJ

[rickf]

On the cable flexibility, You need to use quality aircraft cable. It has a lubricated core and finer wire than the cheap stuff and it is quite flexible. The 5/16 cable on my Warn 8274, when new, feels just like rope. It is actually called "wire rope". When I was in towing the guy I worked for always spent the extra money for the best cable. In the end it paid off because it lasted longer and one of the main reasons was the flexibility. It laid on the spool much more evenly as it wound in. There is a certain way the cable has to be laid down when first wound on the drum, there is a right way and a wrong way. Done right the cable will lay perfectly tight against the previous wrap and nest into it. Done wrong the spiral on the cable is facing the wrong way and the wraps will bind and chafe. In the 40 plus years of using and really abusing the Warn on my truck I have only had to replace the cable twice.
Cables are actually a thing of the past now, they have been replaced with winch rope. It is stronger, does not stretch like cable and naturally is infinitely flexible. You don't have to worry about getting snags in the cable with broken strands. If I were you I would look into replacing the cable with rope for your trailer.

[m3a1]

I'm curious how the rope stands up to being out in the sun forever and ever.

The Ironton 12K winch claims "aircraft grade wire rope" by the way.

[Mark]

We used wire rope alot in the line const so I'd think you would have no issues, I guess talk to construction linemen(union hall) for details

[rickf]

I don't know if the Chinese description of "aircraft grade wire rope" lives up to the real thing. As far as being out in the sun for the winch rope I think it is pretty UV resistant. Google synthetic winch ropes and you will get a real good education. Once i replace the motor on my Warn winch I am putting the Amsteel rope on it. That is what is used on all of the ships nowadays. Amsteel and Spydura are two of the bigger names.