Thoughts on this XM151 and two Solid Axle M151A2s

[Austringer]

Coming up for auction are three interesting Mutts.

A XM151 with what appears to be original hard top but wrong engine and missing some key items such as correct seats etc.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detai ... xm151-jeep


What has me interested are the two M151A2s with solid axles, they look legit from what I can tell. I just wish I had a chance to look at the one that Sam Warner had at his place years ago.
#1: https://www.rockislandauction.com/detai ... 151a2-jeep
#2: https://www.rockislandauction.com/detai ... 151a2-jeep
Would love your thoughts on these.

I'm not bidding as I have a M113 that I'm in the middle of a restoration on.

J.

[rickf]

We had a thread going on those and I put some comments up on it. The XM looks legit but the LC's not so much. The dates would be wrong for one thing since the LC would have come about before the A2 but also the back differentials are not CJ-5 as they claim since they do not have the floating axle and separate brake drum. I am thinking they may be later Ford 8.8 axles and these were built much later than stated. I can't find the thread but I will post it here when I find it. May have been on a different forum.

[Surveyor]

About a page back in this years Craigslist thread under the for sale section Rick had a couple posts about them.

[muttguru]

Just a few comments on the A2-LC.

The M151A2-LC was intended to be built by AMG and the "LC" denoted "Low Cost".
It used the existing AMG-built A2 body but with leaf springs and M38-type axles, fully-floating at the front, semi-floating at the rear. The transmission was from an M38A1.
Another big difference was that it was 12-volt not 24. It had one battery, power was generated by a 12-volt alternator outputting 51 watts. That should be AMPS, not Watts !the electrics were not radio-suppressed.
It had no waterproofing/deepwater fording kit and AMG hoped that the first customer would be the Canadian Defence Force.
Apparently, the Canadians were not sufficiently impressed to place an order so the vehicle never entered mass production.

It was a good idea aimed at the wrong market. Had it been offered to the general public, it might have been successful, but by 1974, the Canadians had purchased standard A2s from AMG.
The one in the auction may have been a pilot model but as the A2-LC never went into production, this pilot vehicle should be the same as whatever was in the AMG sales brochure.
Whatever.....it's still an interesting vehicle.
Ken

[rickf]

My description of the axle being full floating was incorrect, I was thinking of something else while looking at two piece hubs. Ken, did the M38 use a one piece axle as pictured on those A2's?

[muttguru]

My description of the axle being full floating was incorrect, I was thinking of something else while looking at two piece hubs. Ken, did the M38 use a one piece axle as pictured on those A2's?

Hi Rick,

I was told that as AMG (Formerly Willys-Kaiser) had all the tooling for the M38A1, along with the links to the suppliers of parts for the M38A1, it was hoped that a proven transmission-transfer along with reliable axles from the same vehicle, would make it easy for the company to put together a vehicle that was cheap to build, would cost a lot less than the regular M151A2, and was less liable to rollover as well...... in theory, it was a good idea and as the Canadians usually focused on peacekeeping roles, a simplified A2 should fit the bill....but it didn't.

I'm guessing that the axles were from Dana....the ratio was definitely 4.27 and I'm told that the transmission-transfer was a T-90 (M38A1).

I wonder what it will sell for?

ps.... I had a contact in Canada ( the late, much-lamented Ken Lee) who sent me a picture of his M151A2 which I'll post tomorrow..... the front axle is solid and the front leaf springs can be seen..... but I just can't remember whether he built the setup himself.
Ken

[raymond]

Another big difference was that it was 12-volt not 24. It had one battery, power was generated by a 12-volt alternator outputting 51 watts. the electrics were not radio-suppressed.

Ken

Ohm's Law: Wattage divided by voltage = amperage.

A 51 watt alternator at 12 volts would only put out about 4.25 amps.

Not sure that would be enough for even the ignition.

[rickf]

AHA! Ken made a mistake!!! Sounds like a standard 55 amp GM alternator to me.

[muttguru]

AHA! Ken made a mistake!!! Sounds like a standard 55 amp GM alternator to me.

I'm only the messenger ,folks..... that's what happens when you stay up late....at my age !

Here's what the AMG LC-data sheet says......
Ken

[Surveyor]

51 AMP with radio suppression.


RIP MCL, RIP.

[rickf]

AHA! Ken made a mistake!!! Sounds like a standard 55 amp GM alternator to me.

I'm only the messenger ,folks.....

Here's what the AMG LC-data sheet says......
Ken

51 amp but in Kens defense it does say a 4.5 amp hour battery which has to also be a mistake. My lawnmower battery is bigger than that!

[Surveyor]

Looks like a couple of them sold for under $8000.